I am not a moderator for this week, but I was reading a post made by Rabea about the glass paperweight and the churches in the song. I found this to be really interesting because I made some sort of connections from the book to what we said in class.
"'Orange and lemons,' say the bells St. Clement's,
'You owe me three farthings,' say the bells of St Martin's -" (102)
I find it weird as to why a church would be mentioned. We all know that a church is a house of worship. It is a holy environment where people of religion would gather, and that makes me wonder, why would several churches still be here? Ignorance is strength, right? Ok, is that what the brotherhood is trying to imply? Tristan made a controversial comment in our class a few classes ago about how religion is ignorance, I don't agree with that but that's my opinion, but if his assumption is right. Then, is the church the Party's strength? Also, I ask you this, after all these year, after burning all the history books and all the records, why leave the churches? They could easily burn the churches down, but why didn't the Party do so?
I'm really interested to hear your comments because this seems pretty mysterious to me.
"'Orange and lemons,' say the bells St. Clement's,
'You owe me three farthings,' say the bells of St Martin's -" (102)
I find it weird as to why a church would be mentioned. We all know that a church is a house of worship. It is a holy environment where people of religion would gather, and that makes me wonder, why would several churches still be here? Ignorance is strength, right? Ok, is that what the brotherhood is trying to imply? Tristan made a controversial comment in our class a few classes ago about how religion is ignorance, I don't agree with that but that's my opinion, but if his assumption is right. Then, is the church the Party's strength? Also, I ask you this, after all these year, after burning all the history books and all the records, why leave the churches? They could easily burn the churches down, but why didn't the Party do so?
I'm really interested to hear your comments because this seems pretty mysterious to me.
Thanks for bringing up this topic, Fatin. I think you pose some interesting questions. If you go back to the end of Part I, you'll find that the churches mentioned have been bombed out or are being used for propaganda displays. But why mention the churches at all?
ReplyDeleteI don't want to trigger a TOKish discussion on religion, but it's interesting and perhaps relevant to note that Karl Marx, co-author of "The Communist Manifesto", asserted that "Religion is the opium of the people." A catchy soundbite, but I think it's more complicated than that. There have been religious figures and groups throughout history who have felt compelled to fight for social justice and against the powers that be based, in part, on their religious beliefs. Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr. spring to mind. In October of this year leaders of 15 Christian churches signed a letter calling for Congress to reconsider providing aid to Israel due to alleged human rights violations (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/us/church-appeal-on-israel-angers-jewish-groups.html).
Just a few things to ponder.
Unfortunately I think the churches serve little purpose or symbolism in this book. It seems to be giving the author more of a segue into the past, having brought up one of the oldest symbols of History; a church. As for why they are kept, I think it has more to do with churches are very well built, strong standing buildings. With the party being constantly low on resources, why destroy something when you can just change its history. Everything seems to lead back to Big Brothers ability to simply change history in a matter of moments.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Tristan that the Party may not find it necessary to destroy the churches when it's easier to simply change history or change the function of the churches. I, however, don't agree that the churches serve little purpose in the novel. We can't ignore the rhyme that echoes throughout the novel ('Oranges and lemons,' say the bells of St Clement's'), the print, and the fact that Julia and Winston have sex in a church tower. As Tristan points out, the churches are remnants of the past and the past seems to have a powerful hold on Winston. The question is why does the past have such a grip on him? (Don't respond that it was better of freer; be more specific).
ReplyDeleteOne more thing ... is the Party constantly low on resources? I thought they were fulfilling or exceeding all their production plans. Life seems pretty grim, but the Party continues to inform the public that life is better than it used to be. Where is the all the money going? Is there any money? What can we believe?
I also agree with Tristan's point made in our class discussions on the institutional and somewhat ignorant disposition one can find in many religious systems (Please please don't take this offensively. There is many good sides to religion, too, and this is more of directed at the stereotypical view one has of Catholicism or Protestantism). However I think it's important to take this idea one step further.
ReplyDeleteFor me the churches in the novel in the end propose a paradox. According to the quote proposed by Karl Marx that Ms. Cox mentioned above, "Religion is the opium of the people". In other words, it serves as a mean to delude believers, as well as to offer a certain atmosphere of complete subjugation in which all people equally subdue themselves to the church. That sounds pretty much just like what we know of the Party, doesn't it?
In the meantime, religions however also preach the importance of unity, devotion, love, family, and benevolence. We all know the saying "love thy neighbor". Yet how can these two systems coexist, and what's the importance of the paradox? I think that's the ultimate question we have to ask ourselves.